Copa Rio 1951 - First World Club Cup?

[Gabriel1951 2]

Hello, my name is Gabriel and I'm Brazilian, my english is not very good, but I'll try to communicate with you and I hope you understand me if you speak the language. I cheer for Palmeiras and I've always heard that the first world club championship in history was the 1951 Rio Cup, won by Palmeiras against Juventus of Boniperti. However, the rivals say we are not world champions, disregarding this achievement, something that FIFA partly has guilty, because it has recognized this championship and returned a few times. I would like to know what you Juventus fans know about this championship? Was it really a worldwide club? the first in history? what is the position on this in the Italian media and among the fans? Thank you and sorry for the long text.

 

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[Dale_Cooper 18.740]

Welcome to VecchiaSignora Gabriel!

 

I heard about the trophy though, while looking at the history of the “Club’s World Cup”. To be fair it actually is the very first intercontinental trophy and well done to Palmeiras to win it. Also fair to say that it was organized by the Brazilian Federation and not by FIFA, therefore, while de facto it was the first “World Cup”, it’s not officially recognized as the first one. I do see it as the precursor to the Intercontinental Cup though, since it was a trophy between South American and European clubs. So yeah, fair to say it was the first Intercontinental Clubs’ World Cup! I also see that international referees were used, it gives even more value and importance to the trophy at the time imho. It reminds me of a few European trophies that have been played before the “Champions League” was born. 

 

Anyway I will have a look around regarding what the Italian media say about it and reply back to you. Hopefully some other users can help you more with your questions!

 

All the best 😄 

 

[Ste71 4.918]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Rio_(international_tournament)

[Ste71 4.918]

Gabriel, it is not regarded as an official tournament by FIFA. 

The reason is simple: it was not organized by FIFA themeselves or by a Continental Federation. Therefore, it CAN'T be recognized as an official tournament by FIFA.

FIFA's rule is: international official tournaments are tournaments organized by FIFA or Continental Federations ONLY.

Traduco:

Gabriel, non è considerato un torneo ufficiale dalla FIFA.
La ragione è semplice: non fu organizzato dalla FIFA o da una federazione continentale. Pertanto non può essere riconosciuto dalla FIFA come torneo ufficiale.
La regola della FIFA è: tornei internazionali ufficiali sono SOLO i tornei organizzati dalla FIFA o dalle federazioni continentali.

[Gabriel1951 2]

18 minutes ago, Dale_Cooper wrote:

Welcome to VecchiaSignora Gabriel!

 

I heard about the trophy while looking at the history of the "Club's World Cup". Palmeiras to win it. To be fair It was not organized by the Brazilian Federation and not by FIFA, Therefore, while de facto it was the first "World Cup", it's not officially Recognized as the first one. I know it as a precursor to the Intercontinental Cup though, since it was a trophy between the South American and European clubs. So yeah, the Intercontinental Clubs' World Cup! It also looks like this, but it gives more value and importance to the trophy at the time. It reminds me of a few European trophies that have been played before the "Champions League" was born. 

 

Anyway I'll have to look around what the Italian media say about it and reply back to you. Hopefully some other users can help you with your questions!

 

All the best 😄 

 

Hi Dale, thanks for the answer. Actually the tournament was organized by the Brazilian Federacion with the aid of Otorino Barassi, a high ranking Fifa member. Two year ago more or less, on the birthday of the match betwenn Palmeiras and Juventus, Fifa posted a homage on Instagram and wrote this:  A Liminha-inspired @sepalmeiras edged a @juventusteam including Giampiero Boniperti & a dazzling Danish triumvirate to become the sport’s first intercontinental world club champions. I don´t know but appears to me that thhey don t recognize the cup as the first world club cup organized exclusive by them, but recognized like the first model of a world club championship, am i wrong? What i know is the Bonaperti already said that the tournament was the first worldwide competition, i don´t know if you can find his declarations

[piesel 8.542]

Strange that we lost the game 

[Gabriel1951 2]

9 minutes ago, Ste71 wrote:

Gabriel, it is not considered as official tournament by FIFA. 

The reason is simple: it was not organized by FIFA themes or by a Continental Federation. Therefore, it CAN NOT be recognized as an official tournament by FIFA.

FIFA's rule is: international official tournaments organized by FIFA or Continental Federations ONLY.

Translate:

Gabriel, is not considered an official tournament by FIFA.
The reason is simple: it was not organized by FIFA or a continental federation. Therefore it can not be recognized by FIFA as an official tournament.
The FIFA rule is: official international tournaments ONLY the tournaments organized by FIFA or the continental federations.

Yeah i know that it is not official tournament by Fifa.But  the presense of Otorino Barassi in the organization causes more confusion on this matter and the fact that they already recognize the tournament before in documents too

[Gabriel1951 2]

 Can not be recognized on a historical way ?

[Tornado blackwhite 4.900]

Strange that we lost the game 

We are so lucky...

 

 

 

[Dale_Cooper 18.740]

1 ora fa, Gabriel1951 ha scritto:

What i know is the Bonaperti already said that the tournament was the first worldwide competition, i don´t know if you can find his declarations

 

Quoto

At the end of the 1950-51 season, Juventus was invited to the "Champions Tournament" in South America, together with the Champions teams of France, Austria, Yugoslavia, Portugal, etc.

At this point it should be emphasized that a difficult task awaited us not only for the strength and ability of the opposing teams, but also for the fact that Italian football, having suffered humiliating defeats during the World Championships of the previous year, it was not held in the consideration it deserved, with great repercussions on the morale of all of us.

We were determined to redeem the prestige of our football, trusting the perfect efficiency of our team that, despite having ranked third at the end of the Italian football championship 1950-51, was perfect in every sector.

The facts gave us reason: on American soil we defeated the most quoted European nationals and the most technical and aggressive Brazilian and Uruguayan ones.

One of the memories I will never forget was the passion of our emigrants. Their incitement, the warmth of their "Forza Juventus" and "Forza Italia", spurred us to give our best, despite the fact that we were returning from a long and unnerving national championship. And when some emigrant, overcoming difficulties of any kind, could talk to some of us and told us that he/she had done thousands of kilometers on the plane to attend our match, believe me, we could not help but be moved and rejoice and suffer in the same time.

During that tournament the "Juventus", despite having collected victories on victories, was ranked second, after Palmeiras, champion of Brazil. If I think about that episode, I can't still believe it. Palmeiras was beaten for the first time 4-0 (it was their first defeat after six years, so that thousands and thousands of fan members tore the cards, as we learned from the local press). Then in the finals we lost 1-0. And the second leg ended 2-2. 

Carlo Parola.

 

Maybe you can tell me more about the part I highlighted. Is it true that members tore cards?

 

Boniperti talked about it as well. It seems like Juventus has played this tournament to win it, mostly as a sort of "revenge" for the World Cup played one year before by Italy and because Juventus finished the 1950-51 league as third. So it was actually played with a real sense of competition by Juventus! And yeah, the more I look at it and the more I see it can be considered as the first World Cup for clubs.

 

I see that FIFA doesn't officially recognizes it also for "political reasons" (for instance, to avoid discussions with non-invited nations, etc.).

 

I can quote this from the official Juventus website:

Quoto

It all began in 1951, when Juventus of Boniperti, Muccinelli, Praest and Hansen (1949-50 Italian champions), disputed in Brazil the Copa Rio, a sort of forerunner of the Club World Cup. The bianconeri took part only in the first edition, which was won by Palmeiras that defeated Juventus in the double final with the overall result of 3-2.

 

[Gabriel1951 2]

1 ora fa, Dale_Cooper ha scritto:

 

Carlo Parola.

 

Maybe you can tell me more about the part I highlighted. Is it true that members tore cards?

 

Boniperti talked about it as well. It seems like Juventus has played this tournament to win it, mostly as a sort of "revenge" for the World Cup played one year before by Italy and because Juventus finished the 1950-51 league as third. So it was actually played with a real sense of competition by Juventus! And yeah, the more I look at it and the more I see it can be considered as the first World Cup for clubs.

 

I see that FIFA doesn't officially recognizes it also for "political reasons" (for instance, to avoid discussions with non-invited nations, etc.).

 

I can quote this from the official Juventus website:

 

That´s what i tought, that the tournament is in a historical way the first world cup, but in a official way no, because of political and commercial motives. But i think that this is a great injustice. Palmeiras itself recognize the cup as his most important victory, even more than Libertadores. A red star was put above the club´s symbol to represent this conquest in our history, but rivals close their eyes to history here in Brazil just to make fun of the teams they don´t like.

[RobertoDub 2.197]

9 hours ago, Gabriel1951 said:

That´s what i tought, that the tournament is in a historical way the first world cup, but in a official way no, because of political and commercial motives. But i think that this is a great injustice. Palmeiras itself recognize the cup as his most important victory, even more than Libertadores. A red star was put above the club´s symbol to represent this conquest in our history, but rivals close their eyes to history here in Brazil just to make fun of the teams they don´t like.

You did play all matches in Brazil, at a time when playing abroad would put anyone at a huge disadvantage  .

 

The fact Juventus did not participate in subsequent years may also mean there is more to this story that meets the eye, especially if a gentleman like Boniperti was part of the first tournament. We probably won't know the whole story anyway.

 

Regards.

[Juventus Memories 4.317]

10 ore fa, Gabriel1951 ha scritto:

That´s what i tought, that the tournament is in a historical way the first world cup, but in a official way no, because of political and commercial motives. But i think that this is a great injustice. Palmeiras itself recognize the cup as his most important victory, even more than Libertadores. A red star was put above the club´s symbol to represent this conquest in our history, but rivals close their eyes to history here in Brazil just to make fun of the teams they don´t like.

hey bro can we have a private converstation? i understand portuguese and i have got same rare pics of the tournament

i love football history.... enjoy palestra italia!!!! that gave us ministrinho sernagiotto!!!

[velas 13.434]

First time I hear of this.